DEPTH Dialogue
Deep Inwardly Focused Socratic Dialogue

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II. A Practical "Functional" View of
Socratic Dialogue

The second source for the rediscovery of deep Socratic Dialogue (now called DEPTH Dialogue) comes from Plato's depictions, in his Dialogues, of the activity of doing the Dialectic.

The practice of Dialectic, or Socratic Dialogue, has extensive background, both from the ancient documents (Plato's Dialogues) and from my research in re-discovering its practical essence. I will be presenting a lot more of this background here in the future.


Experience in the Classical World

For now, briefly, the functional interpretation of Socratic Dialogue is based on highly reputable academic research into ancient Greek mind, culture and language. In this view there was in the Greek consciousness that created Plato's Dialogues no notion of a duality of mind and body. The idea of a non-bodily mind separate from a body seen as an object is entirely a modern creation stemming from a tradition that started after the classical period. Other such dualities that the modern world takes for granted simply did not exist either.

(For a more detailed, scholarly discussion of this go here.)


No "Mind-Body Split"

What this means for the practice of Socratic Dialogue is that it cannot be merely either a mental/psychological process nor a purely physical or mechanistic process. To be true to its source it must be a seamless holistic process that has no assumption of a disembodied, "spiritual" mind separate from an object called the body.

In fact, all our modern assumptions about mind, psychology and bodies just won't do. Going back to the original source leads us to develop a practice that is deeply and radically different from any practice or theory based on the assumptions of the modern world.


Radical Source-Knowledge

DEPTH Dialogue comes in part from a deep exploration of Socratic Dialogue in the light of this radical source-knowledge. This is one of the factors that has allowed it to develop into a practice that transcends all modern views on what is possible in personal growth and transformation.


Beyond The Functional View

The functional view of Socratic dialogue allows us to go more deeply into just what Socrates was doing when he did what he called his Dialectic. But this view is only on the level of the reading and interpretation of Plato's Dialogues. Finding out how to actually DO the Dialectic means that we have to move into the actual inner dynamics of it. It means that the functional view has to somehow be deepened into functional experience. This is what the modern experiential functional learning methods allow us to do.

When we have gone deeply enough beyond the functional view into functional experiencing we will then be able to recover the true inner action of the Dialectic - of deep Socratic Dialogue.

The next section on The Inner Dynamics Of Modern Experiential Learning Methods shows exactly how this is done.


Beyond Drama

The functional view of Socratic dialogue is an interpretation of it as dramatic action. This is a large, important step beyond the traditional doctrinal interpretations but it does not go as far as needed. The functional experiential view looks on Dialectic not as drama but as a form of action that transcends drama. Just as the stages of development that DEPTH Dialogue guides you into are steps beyond the formal operations level (see the
Overview section for an explanation of that), deep inner Socratic dialogue is an inner movement that takes you into many levels of functioning beyond drama and all its forms of enactment.

A schematic look at the development to and then beyond drama would be something like the following:

1. "Sensory-Motor" level - experiencing just the raw data of experience from the senses, including the proprioceptive, kinesthetic and body feeling senses. This is, in general, a kind of hallucinatory consciousness, with very little cognitive organization in the experiences. Cognitive faculties have not yet been developed at this stage and experience is a kind of primordial soup of swirling energies and sense impressions.

2. "Concrete Operations" level - narrative story-telling as a way of organizing and "working up" the raw data of the senses. Narration means simply relating the facts. This is either plain story-telling, as in, for instance, a documentary film, or the myths, fairytales and legends that characterize childish magical thinking. This is a leap beyond the previous level of raw experiencing with little or no cognitive organizing, but it is not yet the fully rational, conceptualized organization of experience that we find at the next level.


3. "Formal Operations" level - drama (tragedy, comedy, etc.) as a way of organizing experience. This is again a leap beyond the previous level (that of of narrative organization of experience.) Drama is an "action method" of experiencing, in which the raw data of experience are seen not just as facts to be related (narrated) or as magical objects that seem to bestow a kind of power, but as dynamic forces acting with and upon one another. The factors and forces of experience thus come into either conflict (tragedy) or into odd and unusual juxtapositions (comedy), or combinations and permutations of those two modes.
 
A major hallmark of this level is the unique, self-conscious individual as the central character of the action events of the conflict (tragedy) or of the incongruous juxtosition (comedy.) Another is that the action proceeds by a kind of inevitable logic of development from inception to conclusion - in the same way as a proposition of formal logic or a mathematical proof. 

4. "Creative Generativity" level
- dialectic (DEPTH Dialogue practice) as a way of organizing experience. As with previous levels this is a leap beyond the level immediately preceding it, which both builds on that level and transcends it. Dialectic, like drama, is an "action method"  in which factors and forces act with and on one another. But the mode of acting is different. Whereas drama organizes experience around conflict or juxtapositions of (seeming) opposites, thereby assuming a polarization of elements in a sort of experiential two-valued logic, dialectic re-organizes the same factors and forces in a very different way.

The operative element in dialectic is not conflict of elements, as in tragedy, or juxtaposition of elements, as in comedy, both of which result in dramatic resolutions through emotional purgings. It is irony. Dialectical irony is the multi-layered, multi-faceted simultaneity of elements, and its action impels the deeper feelings to resolve the dynamic tension of the elements through a kind of blending of elements that spontaneously creates entirely new forms of experience, seemingly out of the blue. This explains the sometimes almost surrealistic array of disparate elements and factors all coming at you at once in many Socratic dialogues. The famous Socratic irony is not inscrutable. It is purposeful. And that purpose is the disarming nudge of confusion caused by the playful churning of elements, leading you unawares to entirely new ways of organizing your experience.

Instead of the two-valued experiential logic of polarities, dialectic uses a multi-valued and multi-faceted experiential logic of creative play. This means that instead of a linear logic of discreet elements proceeding in discrete linear time (beginning, middle, end, played out as backstory, conflict, crisis, climax and resolution) dialectic turns attention back to the elements themselves (as first experienced at the "concrete operations" level) and examines them carefully (through experiential focusing, as explained elsewhere) so as to spread out and  open up this most basic level of experiencing to subtle discriminating awareness. This then allows for a way of playing with the elements in a sort of simultaneous kaleidescope of multiply displayed elements all at once.

The formal logic and fixed linear dramatic structure of experience is broken down, opening up space for new forms of experience to spontaneously emerge in the further action of the creative play with the now reconstituted elements. [You could look on this as a form of post-modern "deconstructionism" if you wish, but DEPTH Dialogue is unlike this because it is practically and positively focused. Dialectic uses any or all the elements of drama, not to construct new dramas but to deconstruct the whole way of organizing experience that drama creates.]

5. "Spontaneous Emergence" level
- deep dialectic (more expansive and subtle DEPTH Dialogue practice) as a way of organizing experience. Refer to the Overview section of the Introduction for an explanation of this level. Here the creative play of basic dialectic is transcended. Instead of working on and working with the elements of experience, as in basic dialectic, here the experiencing and the play of elements becomes more spontaneous.

An analogy is that basic dialectic is like playing sheet music, and deep dialectic is like jazz improvisation. Or, basic dialectic is like learning to play a difficult game that has a lot of rules, plays, etc. while deep dialectic is when you have mastered that level and now you are playing for the sheer fun and joy of it. Deep dialectic is about sheer fun and joy in your experiencing, and developing a spontaneous flow of creativity in all your experiencing and actions.

6. "Dynamic Radiant Beingness" level
- transcendent dialectic as a way of organizing your experiencing. Refer to the Overview section of the Introduction for a deeper explanation of this level. Where deep dialectic is the spontaneous play of creativity in experiencing, transcendent dialectic is the beingness, the wholeness and the dynamic flow of creativity itself, in and of itself, with or without focus on the forms of seeming outer experience. If basic dialectic is like playing sheet music and deep dialectic is like jazz improvisation, transcendent dialectic is oneness with the music itself, both at its source and in its expression.

Whereas deep dialectic operates at a subtler and more expansive level than basic dialectic, transcendent dialectic operates even beyond this, solely at what could be called the "psychic," "intuitive" and "spiritual" levels (although these terms are not adequate because they come from a language that assumes "mind-body" dualism, which is not the case here) and completely without conscious direction or intention. There is no need for or use of words, thoughts, imagination or focusing of attention at this level. It is operating at the level that Plato called (in classical Greek) "nous." This is roughly translated as transcendent intuitive intelligence, which he says is the goal of dialectic and the highest form of human functioning, resulting in the highest human happiness.

Drama As Worldview

The way that Western culture got stuck on the drama level of two-valued linear logic is a direct result of the adoption of a wordview based on the philosophy of Aristotle. This wordview has shaped just about every level and aspect of Western culture. Even though hardly anyone in the modern world takes Aristotle seriously or even studies his works, the basic underlying assumptions of the modern world are thoroughly from Aristotle. The nature of basic underlying assumptions is that they are mostly if not entirely unconscious. Therefore it does not make any difference if Aristotle's philosophy is know or acknowledged. It is powerful anyway, even the more so for being so unconsciously accepted.

Going even further, Aristotle himself has basic assumptions. These assumptions underly his whole philosophy. Like most basic assumptions they are not explicit but they nevertheless pervade every aspect of what arises from them. Since Aristotle's philosophy underlies all of customary Western culture, his basic assumptions underly it more deeply than any other factor, and therefore form it more fully than any other factor or influence, even though these basic assumptions are generally unknown and unstated.


Origins Of This Worldview

This is important because, very tellingly, Aristotle's basic assumptions, that inform and give rise to his entire philosophy, are dramatic!! If we look at not what he says but at the basic metaphor than structures what he says we find that the most basic image set that gives form and structure to everything else that he says is in his Poetics.

The Poetics is not about poetry. It is about the form and structure of drama. It is in the Poetics that the whole set of ideas about dramatic structure that we have even until this day are first laid out. It is there that the ideas of beginning, middle, end, and of conflict, crisis, climax and resolution come from. It is there that the central idea of modern psychotherapy adopted and perpetuated to this day by Freud and his followers is found, namely, the idea that the dramatic enactment and spectacle of emotions in drama purges the viewer of this enactment from these emotions. Thus, catharsis through pain became a basic tenet of the Western world.

Whereas this is probably a correct and insightful characterization of the classical dramas of Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides, and thereby helped to cement the cognitive and emotional leap beyond the narrative form of Homer and Hesiod, it is not adequate as an interpretation of the form of action in Plato's Dialogues. Although Aristotle does not give us commentaries on Plato he does characterize dialectic. And his characterization is entirely based on his dramatic worldview.


The Drama Of Logic

The dramatic worldview presented in the Poetics results in a linear two-valued logic. The connection is that the basic dramatic metaphor says "beginning, middle, end" and the basic logic of Aristotle says  A,B then C. (This is oversimplifying for the sake of space here, but this could be spelled out in detail.) His "excluded middle" (something cannot be both A and not-A) is just a variation on the theme of dramatic conflict (some dramatic factor or character discretely opposes some other factor or character, but can never be the same, or even somewhat ambiguous, etc.)

So when it comes to analyzing dialectic he puts it into this drama interpretation machine and reduces it to a linear two-valued logical procedure. He says it is a method for the discovery of knowledge by trial and error. According to him, it is simply a kind of formal logic, a specific kind of linear logic, this being his highest ideal (concealing the drama assumption, which is the real highest ideal, the real most basic underlying form.)


Consequences Of This

All the other branches of knowledge attributed to Aristotle come from this same source in this same manner. These include mathematics, biology, physics, political science, ethics, metaphysics, epistemology and psychology. The modern disciplines that go by these names are radically different from Aristotle's sciences but the underlying (drama) assumptions of all of them remains intact. Every aspect of customary Western culture to this day is thoroughly Aristotelean, in this sense.

What matters most here is not these sciences and forms of culture themselves but the basic error in interpreting dialectic as a kind of formal logic (without stating it explicitly, but this being based on the formal linear interpretation of drama.) Plato's dialectic was, and is, a level of viewing and experiencing (and working practically with) human action that transcends drama (as explained earlier in this section.) By reducing dialectic to formal drama logic Aristotle blocked the way for dialectic to bring cognitive and emotional consciousness beyond drama. The adoption of Aristotle's assumptions by the modern world has blocked this way for the whole modern world.


Stuck Education And Stuck Psychology

This is most disturbing in the fields of education and psychology because these impact humans and human action right where we live. Dialectic is an educational practice that as surely takes a person to a leap beyond the "formal operations" drama level of organizing action and experience, as formal operations takes a person beyond "concrete operations." The incorrect reduction of dialectic to a kind of formal linear logic has thus deprived the whole human race of levels of creativity, expressiveness, freedom and happiness that could have easily been attained. Instead of this, we now have a world based on cognitively and emotionally objectifying experience into discrete "things," elements, factors or forces that come into conflict or juxtaposition with one another. This is a worldview of conflict, violence, exploitation and viewing one another as objects to be manipulated.

All of the violence, exploitation and alienation in the world goes unabated because of the unavailability of the true dialectic of Plato. Modern cultural critiques which vividly and correctly point out these horrors of our modern world and their sources, labor under the same distortion of dialectic that started with Aristotle. Namely, Hegel took up Aristotle's view of dialectic and expanded on it, making it a worldview of the actions inherent in history and nature. Marx and Engels then took this and "turned it on its head" to make it a centerpiece of their materialistic cultural and economic critiques. More modern proponents of "critical theory" (cultural critique based on Marx and Freud, such as in Marcuse) have taken off from there. All of these critiques have validity but have had little or no effect in changing anything that they critiqued. That is because the dialectical understanding that they adopted was basically and fatally flawed, as explained above.


Freud's Dramatic Assumptions

More poignant is the distortion in psychology, and especially in its practical application in modern psychotherapy. Freud is the source of all modern psychodynamic psychotherapies, even among those who oppose or denounce him. This if for the same reason as stated above in relation to culture in general. The basic assumptions of all modern psychotherapy come from Freud. These are not generally stated or even known. Again, as above, this is because basic assumptions are almost never known or stated. They are too basic to even be noticed. They are assumed, not known or stated. They are unexamined underlying basic beliefs that inform everything else.

Freud's basic assumptions are from Aristotle!! This may seem surprising to some, but read him carefully. His basic theories come from the Greek drama! Consider Oedipus - Freud's Oedipus complex, and all that flows from that in his psychology and its practice. Even more to the point is his theory of catharsis. Note in the discussion above that one of Aristotle's basic doctrines in his Poetics is about the purging of emotions being the primary intent of drama. Freud made the purging emotions the main event and purpose of the form of dramatic enactment that he invented (or re-invented, from Sophocles?)

When looking at its basic assumptions psychoanalysis can be seen as a form of Aristotelean drama interpretation. The various schools of psychotherapy that arose from Freud, as products of either disciples or of heretics, all work with this basic form in one way or another. Some have made it more analytical and others have leaned
more toward the drama enactment, but they all have the same basic assumptions, and these can be found in Aristotle's Poetics.


The Drama In Psychotherapy

What this means for psychotherapy is that people have been dramatized into various types of conflict-enactments instead of being put into a much-needed higher mode of true dialectic in which the whole formal operations conflicted story-world is transcended into creative play. People have been asked to purge their emotions in the manner of Oedipus At Colonus instead of transcending into higher and freer levels of functioning in the manner of Plato's Dialogues. Much suffering has thereby been kept in place by a basically flawed and ineffectual practice.

Not only this. Suffering has been needlessly increased by ideas of the necessity of playing out inner conflicts through all their pain in order to get from conflict to crisis to dramatic resolution. This is just needless pain. Putting all that attention and intention on pain mostly just increases the pain, never leading to a resolution. In one of his movies Woody Allen tells his girlfriend that he has been in analysis for 15 years, but that he is going to give it another year, then he is going to Lourdes. Freud himself referred to "interminable analysis." Pain and suffering just have no end. Drama is the perpetual cycle of suffering. In the East they call it "karma." It goes on the same forever and ever and ....


Dialectic As Psychotherapy Beyond Drama

Plato referred to his dialectic as "psyches therapeia" - psychotherapy as true care for the "soul" into self-realization. The functional view of dialectic might put this into practice as some kind of psycho-drama because it interprets dialectic as drama. But, as explained above, the dramatic view of dialectic is not adequate. Plato's true dialectic is not a form of drama but a leap beyond it which both builds on it and transcends it.

So, the functional view of Plato that says it is a form of dramatic action is better than previous interpretations in that it sees dialectic as an "action method." But we must go one step beyond the functional view to a functional experiential view where dialectic is seen not only as an action method but as a very specific kind of action that is not drama. Then "care for the soul" becomes something that entirely transcends the whole array of problems and suffering in the modern world, and is a form of "psychotherapy" that does not require suffering, struggle or pious expiation to the "gods" of the predominant culture.

(Only CYA or they may offer you the hemlock again.)


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